Episode 60: Dr Debbie Joffe Ellis
Choosing how you feel about… anything - using Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (REBT)
In episode 60, Dr Debbie covers:
🔹Why she describes REBT as “a no nonsense, no BS” approach
🔹Why it’s never about the event, it’s about the way you view it
🔹Key questions to identify and challenge your own beliefs about any situation
🔹A demo of how to dispute irrational beliefs (using my upcoming childbirth as a real-life example!)
🔹Healthy and unhealthy anger
🔹Letting go of unhealthy anger aimed at another person because of something they did to you
🔹Unconditional self acceptance - even when you screw up
🔹What happened when Dr Albert Ellis first proposed the concept of REBT
“I think one of the tragedies so many people don't realize is that we create our emotions and our emotional destinies,” Dr Debbie told me
‘Minimizing misery and maximizing joy’ - no matter what life throws at you
It’s not often I come across a video online that really sparks my interest. Tragic, I know. But a little while ago, I found myself gripped by a recording of psychologist and Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (REBT) leading figure, Dr Debbie Joffe Ellis, who was suggesting to an audience that anxiety, anger - and any other distressing emotions - are a choice.
I knew I had to unpick this concept with her on healthHackers® so that she could share with all of you (and me!) how we create our own emotional experiences. And therefore, how we can avoid getting stuck in a headspace that doesn’t make us feel good.
REBT is a type of psychotherapy that aims to help you see how unhealthy thoughts and beliefs create emotional upset and distress.
Dr Debbie authored the second edition of the book originally co-authored with her late husband, Dr Albert Ellis - the creator of REBT
It encourages you to see that an event or circumstance is not to blame for your feelings of sadness, anger, anxiety or otherwise. Instead, it’s the way you view the event that has created the uncomfortable feelings within you.
As Dr Debbie told me in episode 60: “It's not what happens, it's not what other people do or say to us that creates our emotional response, reaction and/or experience. It's what we tell ourselves about it.”
Dr Debbie is a world-renowned expert in REBT. She spent years collaborating with her husband, the father and creator of REBT, Dr Albert Ellis, before he passed away in 2007.
His work is understood to have helped lay the foundations for the well-known CBT; Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.
“He worked on creating this no nonsense, no BS, not difficult to understand, and not difficult to apply (if a person is motivated enough and cognitively able, of course) approach that is also imbued with compassion,” she told me.
A key part of the therapy is disputing irrational beliefs. But how do we know if our thoughts about a situation or event in our lives are indeed irrational?
“It's the demands, the shoulds, the musts, the oughts,” she said.
Thinking in rational ways, which is the goal in REBT, requires “preferences, not demands,” Dr Debbie explained
“‘I must do well and be loved, liked, approved of by everyone’.”
“‘You (individual or plural) must either treat me well, treat me the way I think you should, or you must believe what I think you should’.”
“A third common one is ‘life should be fair and with justice’. Of course, it's healthy to prefer that and to work towards creating that, but REBT is realistic to its core, and saying something should be a certain way when it's not can only evoke anger or another unhealthy emotion,” Dr Debbie told me.
Which brings us onto acknowledging the difference between healthy and unhealthy emotions…
“Let's start with the unhealthy negative emotions: anxiety, extreme fear and panic, depression, hopelessness, despondency, rage, guilt and shame,” she said.
A healthier alternative to anxiety in the face of a dramatic circumstance could be concern, for example.
“It's helpful to have concern that can motivate us to consider what action might be helpful and then to motivate us to take the action.”
In REBT, grief can also be a healthy emotion.
“Grief and sadness, when a beautiful period in our life is over, when people we love have passed on… they're healthy, they're enriching [emotions]. They're part of the tapestry of life that allow us to value what we had, and - over time, when the pain may be less raw - to experience how the grief is married to the love, and gratitude then emerges.”
In REBT, grief can be a healthy emotion
Thinking in rational ways, which is the goal in REBT, requires “preferences, not demands,” Dr Debbie explained.
“Not catastrophizing, or authorizing or thinking in absolutistic ways. Having a sense of humor, keeping things in perspective, having high frustration tolerance, reminding ourselves, we can stand what we don't like, we just don't like it.”
In episode 60, Dr Debbie showed how REBT techniques could be applied to feelings of fear and anxiety about an event. We used my upcoming childbirth anticipation as an example.
Firstly, identifying the specific worries - aka irrational beliefs - is key. To do this, she asked me what it was that I was telling myself to make me feel anxious.
Dr Debbie then posed some questions to dispute those irrational beliefs.
“How realistic is that? Where is the evidence for that? And where is it getting you to think that right now?” she asked me.
They are questions that anyone can ask themselves when feeling worried. Check out episode 60 to see how I answered those questions.
According to Dr Debbie, once a person has identified their irrational beliefs, then asked themselves questions to dispute those beliefs, and considered alternative healthy emotions (remember healthy concern instead of anxiety?) - it’s important to solidify the new way of thinking.
“…repetition, repetition, repetition for at least 30 days. Neuroplasticity research shows that's the minimum time it usually takes people to create new neural pathways of thinking in the brain.“
As mentioned earlier, there’s a sense of compassion that comes with REBT philosophy.
This really hit home when Dr Debbie told me of the importance of unconditional self-acceptance and “knowing that we have worth simply because we exist. If we screw up, let's learn from it. But we still have worth,” she said.
This applies to people around you, too. Even when they hurt you.
“Adopt an attitude of not approving of their behavior, but accepting that this person has acted in a very disturbed way at the time they acted… because people who are in good health emotionally, cognitively and behaviorally usually don't act in brutal ways against others,” Dr Debbie said.
Dr Debbie has also written about suicide prevention
As I see it, REBT helps a person acknowledge that no matter what life throws at them, they can bear it, and that even being in extreme discomfort doesn’t destroy anyone - unless they allow it to.
Dr Debbie has faced significant pain and grief in her life, some of which she touched on in episode 60. “How come I'm not still miserable? Do I still grieve? Do I miss them? Do I adore them? Yeah. In the beginning, was the pain raw? You bet.”
But here she is today, an example of her own REBT teachings - choosing not to let unhealthy emotions bring her down.
“I think one of the tragedies so many people don't realize is that we create our emotions and our emotional destinies,” she said.
One of Dr Debbie’s primary goals is sharing the techniques of REBT with all of us - not just teaching health care professionals.
As she says, REBT “minimizes misery and maximizes joy, when the reality is that life probably will contain loss and suffering for most of us.”
Learn more about Dr Debbie and find a free emotional self care and self-help sheet on her website: debbiejoffeellis.com
Follow her on Twitter.
Common sense caution: Anything you hear or see within healthHackers® content should not be considered personal or medical advice. You’ve all heard it before, so you know the score - always talk to your own health provider about your concerns.
Thank you to the sponsors of this episode: GlycanAge. See my review of the GlycanAge biological age test and get details of your 15% discount here.